First, do you mind if I post your reply to my site? I’m not sure how many people actually read it (most “discussions” degenerate into pre-pubescent name-calling), but regardless I like to go back every so often and see where I was. How’s that saying go? Can’t know where you’re going unless you know where you’ve been? Err.. I think I got that backwards but you get the idea..

Secondly, here’s my standard disclaimer. Please, please don’t think that I’m trying to challenge, belittle, or influence what you think in any way. I just like to argue, especially about religion. In my opinion, there’s no better way to reinforce what you believe. There’s really nothing more to this response than that. If I thought there was any chance that my response would negatively influence your faith in the slightest, I wouldn’t write it. I’ll be the first to admit that I have a long, long way to go to understanding God.

I started to go through and argue each of your points, but ultimately my whole debate stems around one assertion. How do we know that everything we are told in the Bible is true? There’s no arguing that the book is amazing. 40 authors spanning 3 continents over 1500 years time. Amazing! And it’s true that many theologians and historians have found evidence supporting the Bible’s accuracy, but this in itself does not ensure that God inspired every single chapter and verse.

Homer’s Iliad, the second oldest known book in existence, was written some 850 years before Christ. This is at least 900 years older than the New Testament and much, much older than most of the Old. Also, much of it could (and has) been proven to be historically accurate.

My belief is that the Bible was written by and about men who were inspired by God. Some of what they wrote was undeniably beautiful and pure. This, I believe, is God shining through. Other parts are trivial, petty, and malicious. This is the dirt on the window which blocks God’s light from the world.

When the Bible puts God’s endorsement on the slaughtering of women and children, it’s just plain wrong. This was an entire community of people. Are we to believe that every single one of them was evil and unredeemable? Would a just Father, that knew us before we born, order (or even allow) his children to be slaughtered in this way? Jesus talks, in the parable of the prodigal son (my favorite), about the Father’s rejoicing in the return of his lost son. The son’s dabbling in harlotry and other unscrupulous deeds are all forgotten. Does this sound like the same deity we are introduced to in I Samuel 15? “..and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.”

Don’t even get me started on the idea of hell—a place where people’s souls are banished to burn for an ETERNITY. We spend no more than a few hundred years here on earth. For most, much of this time is shrouded in ignorance, confusion, and doubt. As one of my Bible professors in college used to say, “people are too dumb to go to hell.” How could a loving God watch his children burn for an eternity with no hope for salvation? This isn’t a trip to the corner to think about what we’ve done. If the music stops, and you’re not left standing in one of the (correct) 400+ religious denominations, well, too bad. You had your chance.

Heh. But I digress.. If I haven’t bored you to death or offended you yet, we’ve been discussing many of these issues on my website here the last few weeks. It starts out as a discussion on the applicability of Prayer in Schools (inspired by Heidi of all people), but quickly turns into a lengthy discourse on the divine authority of scripture. Please don’t hesitate to comment if you feel “inspired”.

http://www.bpopp.net/articles/view.php?id=361

I look forward to reading your response if you can find some time..(you, too Bill!)

I have no problem with you posting this to your site. If I did that wouldn't' say much for my convictions.

The question may be, do we doubt the authenticity of the bible or just not like the lesson. Particularly the Old Testament, where those who rejected God deserved death and received it. Back to Numbers 25. Look at the context of what occurred. In Nu 22-24. Balak, king of the Moabites knew the Israelites had essentially defeated the Egyptians, defeated the Amorites and Balaam, a renown diviner repeatedly told the Moabites that the Israelites were Gods chosen people who followed the true God. Ample warning for the Moabites to turn to and follow the true God. Instead, following the counsel of Balaam, the Moabites sent their women to seduce the Israelites and lead them to worship the Moabite Gods (see Nu 31:16). God who owes us no explanation, rightly destroyed both Israelite and Moabite involved in this treachery.

Our fundamental difference lies in the perspective of God's nature. We dearly want to put God in a box of our own creation. We want to be comfortable with God, thus my reference to God as some "benevolent, cuddly, uncle-like figure". Our anemic human brains don't begin to fathom the being that created the universe and us from nothing. Understanding man's importance in relationship to God is impossible.

Re: my cynicism, I think that actually gives me a better grasp of our relationship to God. As I observe a person in the best of circumstances, as they lurch from predicament to calamity it's laughable to overestimate our significance in relation to God. Through Christ, death is what we deserve, not what we get.

Quote: The question may be, do we doubt the authenticity of the bible or just not like the lesson.

That's a fair, and even accurate accusation. I don't believe in God because of my parents influence, righteous ministers, the Bible, or any other conscious external influence. I sometimes wish I did have a more "traditional" belief structure.

I believe in God because I've always felt him in my heart. I've seen Him act in the lives of my friends and family and even directly in my own life. I feel him, sometimes quite unexpectedly, when I'm looking into Stephanie's eyes and wondering what she's thinking, or watching my dogs play in the back yard, or reading an especially good book. CS Lewis calls this being "Surprised by Joy".

It's this same feeling that tells me what's good and bad, right and wrong. Some would argue that this feeling is just the discipline instilled by our parents. I disagree. I think good parents will assist in the enlightenment (for lack of a better word) of their children. This enlightenment can and does get reached despite bad instruction, though.

You would know better than I would what war is really like. As long as I've lived, I've never seen any good come from anger (wrath) and violence. Sometimes they happen, and sometimes they are even necessary due to the "sin" (for lack of a better word) of others. But in an ideal world (and an ideal God)-- they would not exist.

This forces me to at least question the authority of the Bible. Maybe it is what it says it is, but my question, which I don't think you've answered, is how do you know that the Bible is an accurate depiction of God. Maybe the Koran actually was spoken to Muhammad by the Arch Angel Gabriel so that man might know God's true intent. If it is, and God is discerning as you have said, you would be cast down (obviously I don't believe that, but hypothetically speaking). Or maybe the jews are correct in thinking that the Torah is the only inspired scripture? Or maybe the Hindus' Bagdavitta (I know I'm mispelling that) is the real deal.

Quote: Understanding man's importance in relationship to God is impossible.

That's an excellent point and a powerful statement. It doesn't prove that the Bible is divine, though. In fact, from my perspective, it does the opposite.

I have a suggested reading for all in regards to Jesus, virgin mary..etc.

"Jesus, A revolutionary Biography" by John Dominic Crossan. This book gives a reconstruction of the historical Jesus derived from 25 years of scholarly research on what actually happened in Galilee and Jerusalem during the early first century of the common era. (John Crosson is a professor of biblical studies at DePaul University in Chicago. He also wrote, "The Historical Jesus, The Essential Jesus, and Who Killed Jesus?")