If our salvation lies in socialism and liberalism then why was Barney Frank at the helm when this recent housing-market/credit fiasco went down?

In 2007 Frank became the chairman of the House Financial Services Committee when the Democratic Party won a majority in the House. The committee overseas the entire financial services industry, including the securities, insurance, banking, and housing industries.

I don't know why really, but China really seems like a bad example. Don't we already have labor laws in the US, and other laws in place that prevent dumping hazardous waste, etc.? I don't think anyone is trying to get the US to model our government after China are they? If some politician or political pundit started talking about wanting to be like China, I'd run. I like using twitter and facebook!

Oh and speaking of Barney Frank, did you see this?

I love that Rep. Frank called out that nutjob. We need 434 of his colleagues to follow suit before there can be serious debate about health care.

I'm not saying our salvation lies in Socialism. I just think that its degree of evil is often exaggerated by the right. We need a balance of capitalism and socialism.

I'll say it and I'm not ashamed to say it. We need socialized medical care!! Our current system of forcing people to sign up for various insurance coverages doesn't work any better than a government run program would. It probably works worse. Check the amount per person nations with "socialized medicine" pay, and check their average lifespans. All this smoke and dust FoxNews and other insurance backed news companies are blowing at us is just a diversion.

Oh, and I love how people I know in the military think government healthcare is a good benefit for them, but we shouldn't be allowed to have something like that.

Or even more ironic, Obama's example:

Quote: I got a letter the other day from a woman; she said, I don’t want government-run health care, I don’t want socialized medicine, and don’t touch my Medicare. And I wanted to say, well, I mean, that’s what Medicare is, is it’s a government-run health care plan that people are very happy with.

I hear this all the time. People complaining about socialized medicine, and yet it just goes without saying that 90% of us are going to be using government-run health insurance when we're in our most vulnerable phase of life. I've never heard of the government trying to put granny down with a shotgun because she broke her hip.

I think we need a public option, if for no other reason, than to keep insurance companies honest. If they can do better and keep people healthier (I doubt they can), wealthy people will stay pay to increase their coverage. Frankly, I don't think poor people should get the same coverage as the wealthy. I have no problem with rewarding people for success, but poor people need to have the ability to take their children to the doctor so they don't die of some bullsh*t, easily treatable illness like food poisoning (we have one of the highest infant mortality ratings in the modernized world.)

Quote: Frankly, I don't think poor people should get the same coverage as the wealthy.

Some things in life shouldn't be apportioned based upon socioeconomic status. A poor person with cancer should have the same life-saving and palliative oncological treatments available to them as would be to a wealthy person. If a wealthy person needs some sort of extra reward, then they ought to be able to pay extra and get a better hospital room...but not better care.

I'd like to agree with you, but I just don't think it's practical. Take Renal failure, for example. There are only so many kidney donors and surgeons out there to do a transplant. If it's between a guy that has worked his whole life as a small business owner, and a guy that has collected welfare or worked in a McDonald's, I think you gotta give it to the guy that has contributed the most to the common good.

If you're going to give healthcare to the country, there is going to be rationing. Anybody that tells you otherwise is lying. Do some research about the UK's healthcare plan. Once you get to a certain age, certain operations are off the table. This is because 1) your chances of survival drop and 2) they're just too expensive to take the risk.

This isn't nearly as sinister as the right tries to make it sound. A 70 year old guy with kidney failure has had a good run and his chances of surviving another 5 years after a transplant are pretty bleak. Hell, even if he was in good health, his chances of surviving to 75 aren't good.

To a point, I can certainly sympathize with that idea. There are definitely people that I would consider more worthy than others when it comes to receiving medical services that less-than-abundant. But just because I consider somebody more worthy, does that make them so? Probably. But I doubt they are going to give me the job. So, now you're going to be stuck with some freak nutjob making these calls. And who's to say what moral guidelines this freak nutjob is going to follow. He may decide the kidney goes to an elderly Subway sandwich shop employee who has contributed more to the common good by keeping our dress sizes down, in comparison to the some ailing 13 year old girl who hasn't contributed anything to the common good because she hasn't even had a real job yet.

Whereas that may be an extreme example, I don't think I'd have to dial it down much before it would start sounding plausible. Better to ration based on well-documented risk factors rather than leaving it to someone's interpretation of "common good".

I think you're right on this, Brian. You can't possibly give every person the same level of care in every circumstance. Sometimes tough decisions have to be made about who gets what. That situation already exists though, like it or not.